Posted: 1/7/2007 12:36:49 PM
By: Blair Case
Comment:  Arguments over affirmative action programs tend to ignore changing Demographics that are changing the composition of the affirmative action playing field. Hispanic or Latino Americans now outnumber African Americans and are becoming the primary beneficiaires of affirmative action programs. In my hometown of El Paso, for example, Hispanics make up about 80 percent of the city's 750,000 residents. Intermarriage between Anglos and Hispanics are common, and blond, blue-eyed children who have one Hispanic parent or grandparent or also eligible for affirmative action program. Once African Americans, Asians, American Indians and non-Hispanic white females are factored in, about 95 percent of the population is eligible for affirmative action.

We should limited affirmative action to the group that suffers most from racism--Afridan Americans--or base it on economic status.

Posted: 11/30/2006 8:08:44 PM
By: John Rosenberg
Comment:  I have just posted a quite long critique of this report on my blog. If anyone cares to read it, it was posted on Nov. 30, which should put it near the top:

http://www.discriminations.us

Posted: 11/19/2006 11:04:12 AM
By: Ann 
Comment:  "(How many of you are aware some Universities are giving males, which includes white males, preference in admission as women appear to be doing better in general than males at this time?"

I am aware of this, and have been for some time.

And the question remains: how much preference for white males is at the exclusion of non-white males?

"AA is not just for Black Americans - it is also for WOMEN -

the idea is EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK -

EQUAL ACCESS TO THE JOBS FOR WHICH ONE IS EMINENTLY QUALIFIED -

without regard to race, sex, national origin,or anything else.

is that not fair? of course it is.
Women and AA."

Yes, women stand to gain from AA.

But, try telling that to the white women in Michigan who voted against AA.

I don't want to hear them bitching, boo-hooing and bellyaching when they try to gain entrance to universities and jobs.

All they will be ale to do is remember that they helped not only to kill AA for non-whites, but they also managed to kill AA for themselves.

Posted: 11/16/2006 11:29:02 AM
By: Kenneth Gorrell
Comment:  If you look at history, mankind will discriminate against those that are different. Because of the fruits of all tax payers that support the bounty that America has, systems must be in place to insure that all participate in the bounty. Otherwise, if certain groups are instituitionally excluded, what benefit do they have to support an unjust society? That we call such a program in the U.S. "affirmative action", allows the program to be used for politically divisive means.
For those that think no such programs are needed. Look at Ireland. There the populace pretty much looks alike, but injustice was/is done based on religion.
Yes, the situation has improved and will continue to improve in the U.S., but those that believe there should be no programs to insure groups are not left out of the US bounty, are wrong upon fair analysis. Those hollering the loudest about unfairness, support affirmative action for unqualified candidates like George W. Bush to gain a seat at Yale, even the Presidency, when it is so obvious they are not qualified. Sure, programs can be adjusted as time goes on.
I still see and experience discrimination today. I do believe it would be just to open the programs for fair opportunity to all groups based on economic level and possibly other variables (race, gender). (How many of you are aware some Universities are giving males, which includes white males, preference in admission as women appear to be doing better in general than males at this time?) This would be fair in my opinion and lessen the onus on simply the race issue, which some groups so successfully use to divide our republic on this issue.

Posted: 11/16/2006 10:39:01 AM
By: constance kosuda
Comment:  AA is not just for Black Americans - it is also for WOMEN -

the idea is EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK -

EQUAL ACCESS TO THE JOBS FOR WHICH ONE IS EMINENTLY QUALIFIED -

without regard to race, sex, national origin,or anything else.

is that not fair? of course it is.

all the rest of the rhetoric is designed to be divisive -

women, blacks, other minorities are still paid less to do the same job, and that includes jobs requiring advanced degrees -

in other words, dubya and his boyz are going to get the jobs -

period.

It was designed to help more than Black people, and certainly that includes Black people.

Remember "women's rights"? what a concept.

Posted: 11/12/2006 6:43:21 PM
By: Ann 
Comment: 
"Posted: 11/12/2006 8:14:49 AM
By: Micki Larimer
Comment: To redress past injustice, I've been in favor of affirmative action for african americans -
but now I'm drawn to the argument that what's currently needed instead is affirmative action for the economically disadvantaged -regardless of race. Please explain why that's not a more fair, equitable means of leveling the playing field."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO.

Because what you say is just another slap in the face to BLACK AMERICANS. Everyone and their uncle has received benefits from AA.

Everyone but black Americans. And, pray tell, why would you want to water down what black people have been trying to gain in this hellhole of a country with what you are proposing? Why do you want to drag everyone else into what was created to help black people? Why is it so hard for black people to have something that is a stand-alone for them, without other people (who obviously do not want to see black people advance in this country), without someone, like you, suggesting that everybody on the planet be thrown in, instead of working to help "level the playing field" as you put it for the benefit of black people?

What is the problem that black people cannot receive any justice in this country unless every Tom-Dick-and-Harry has to be thrown into the mix?

You think black people will benefit from what you are suggesting?

NO.

They will not.

Then if you think black people will benefit from more slaps in the face,like you are suggesting, I advise you to read this post I did at another website.

I researched thoroughly infromation to back up the fact that this country hates black people and does not want them to have ANYTHING.

ANYTHING.

Not even the crumbs, scraps, and bones of the present so-called AA.

Read the following and see if the white people who are still running this country are still not the ones who are benefitting from AA.

America DOES NOT want her black citizens to get anything out of this she-wolf of a country, and the white voters of Michigan showed their true colors on Tuesday, November 7, 2006:

"We do not want you black people to have anything. That is how we feel about you in the past, and that is how we feel about you now."

The following was a post I did on how Michigan answered the vote on AA:






“The programs thus not only reinforce the idea that minorities are inherently inferior, they actually increase racial animus.”

AA for black people was meant to make the “playing field level. To give QUALIFIED (yes, qualified) black people a chance to open the door and go in. And contrary to the lie that many people willingly believe, not all black people are incompetent, lazy stupid wretches who are not capable of doing the job they apply for. The purpose behind AA was to give black people a chance to apply themselves in this life. But, since many people refuse to believe that there are black people who are intelligent and capable of getting the job done, AA or not, those black people will still have a tough row to hoe, whether or not they went through an AA program or not.

There are many black people who are highly intelligent but without the chance to get to prove themselves, and I am not talking about AA, but, without the chance to get in through the door, they will never get that chance.

Not all jobs require AA; schools, universities, etc., do.

But all Americans are still not equal in their views of black people, even when the black person is highly, and sometimes, overly qualified for the job.

And there are many who have benefitted from AA. And they are not black people:

-White women have benefitted tremendously from AA (and by proxy, the white men in their lives, their husbands, sons, have benefitted);
-Asian Americans are over-represented in AA. Poor or upper-class Asians. But, no one screams or cries about them getting benefits form AA

Posted: 11/12/2006 8:14:49 AM
By: Micki Larimer
Comment:  To redress past injustice, I've been in favor of affirmative action for african americans -
but now I'm drawn to the argument that what's currently needed instead is affirmative action for the economically disadvantaged -regardless of race. Please explain why that's not a more fair, equitable means of leveling the playing field.

Posted: 11/10/2006 6:10:40 PM
By: Ann 
Comment:  Effenus.

Thank you for that beautiful poem.


“Michigan is a battleground,” the Rev. Nelson B. Rivers III told a cheering crowd outside Flint’s City Hall. “Let him go no further than Michigan. Let’s stop him here!”

No, Rev.

Too late.

The disease, the cancer, the plague has been loosed upon the land. It started in California with its Prop. 209. It started in California with its "3 Strikes-Your're-Out Law". It started in Texas with is Hopwood case.

And the most sickest insult of all, is the monster in the form of Ward Connerly, siding with the KKK, a sick, sadistic raping, torturing, lynching organization that for all of its history, as sought the destruction of black Americans.

There is no stopping this curse upon America.

Too much apathy.

Too much "Them niggers are getting and taking everything from us white people."

Too much greed. Too much hate. Too much "me, myself, and I" in America's treatment of her black citizens.



Posted: 11/4/2006 2:42:36 PM
By: giuseppe capuano
Comment: Thank yuo Marc.
In another words, is something to try to show that this country is not a racist one, but i really think ( i have read little bit in the mean time) that is like a "compensation", i don`t know the english word but maybe i can say in italian COMPENSANZIONE, meaning that we will still be racist, but for don`t make you upset i will give you something.
Black are still on the side of this country and this economy, even after 40 years, maybe is time for a change?

No, Giuseppe.

Blacks have been on the side of this country for generations, for decades. And for what?

For what?

To constantly be treated I a way that I would not treat a dog that bite me.

But, maybe it's time for blacks to accept reality. This country has been trying to wipe black Americans off the face of the Earth ever since we have been in it.

God knows America has tried for so long to destroy black people living here in this country. But,if she ever does succeed, she will have destroyed the very best that this country has had to offer the world.

For all the the so-called "majority/mainstream's" (hint: anyone but black people) callous disregard for the aspirations of black people, a hurt done to black Americans is a hurt done to all Americans. A wrong done to black Americans is a wrong done to all Americans.

America is slowly but surely digging her grave.

And her doing everything to hold black people back is just one more nail in her coffin.

No man can hold another man down in a dirty, muddy ditch, and not expect to get just as dirty and muddy as well.

Posted: 11/7/2006 12:35:00 PM
By: Victor  Merina
Comment:  Campaign draws to close in affirmative action fight
By Victor Merina

As their months-long political campaign drew to a close on Monday, the opponents of Michigan’s anti-affirmative action ballot measure embarked on a statewide road show aimed at turning out voters to defeat Proposal 2.

And as they crisscrossed the state, they denounced the man who has forced today’s vote and questioned everything about him, from his out-of-state ties to his apparent embrace of the Ku Klux Klan’s support for his ballot measure.

Ward Connerly, the former University of California regent, has been the engine and the public face behind Proposal 2 along with Jennifer Gratz, the plaintiff in a Supreme Court case that challenged the admissions policies of the University of Michigan Law School.

But as opponents of Proposal 2 rallied supporters on the final full day of campaigning, many singled out Connerly as the man with a dangerous mission. They portrayed him as a person who has successfully spearheaded similar measures in California and Washington state and who has eyes on spreading his anti-affirmative action movement across the country.

“Michigan is a battleground,” the Rev. Nelson B. Rivers III told a cheering crowd outside Flint’s City Hall. “Let him go no further than Michigan. Let’s stop him here!”

Rivers, the chief operating officer of the NAACP, had flown from the group’s Baltimore headquarters to join the caravan of critics urging a “no” vote on a measure many see as historic in the affirmative action struggle.

Although most of the speakers were Democrats, Republican Rep. Joe Schwarz of Battle Creek stepped to the microphone to say that his party as well as the state’s entire congressional delegation is “four-square against the proposal.” A former president of the University of Michigan alumni association, Schwarz warned that efforts to diversify public colleges “will go up in smoke” if voters approve “this ridiculous proposal.”

If passed, Proposal 2 would amend the state constitution to bar affirmative action programs based on race and gender in admitting students to public universities, hiring government employees and awarding government contracts.

In a campaign that has relied largely on television and radio ads, Connerly and Gratz argue that affirmative action programs are corrupt and unfair and that it is time to jettison preferential programs based on race, ethnicity or gender.

While a weekend poll by the Detroit Free Press showed that voters were leaning toward rejecting the measure, another survey released Monday evening had Proposal 2 leading among likely voters but with a large undecided pool still remaining.

The poll numbers in the ABC-12/EPIC-MRA survey has 49% of voters in support of the measure, 46% against and 13% undecided.

Amid that uncertainty and with voter turnout the key to today’s outcome, the opponents of Proposal 2 took to the road Monday from Lansing to Grand Rapids and from Traverse City to Detroit to call for the faithful to reject the measure.

In Flint where more than half the 125,000 residents are African American, the speakers warned that the impact of Proposal 2 would be a step backward for civil rights. But they also stressed that women and girls also would be jeopardized with the ban on gender-based programs for public colleges and health care service.

One woman in the crowd, wearing a head scarf and hoisting a “No on 2” sign, said she was there to represent her local Islamic center as well as her daughter and sisters who would be affected by Proposal 2.

“Sure affirmative action has some flaws as does anything,” said Muna Jondy, a 31-year-old lawyer, “but give me some other options. Don’t just discard it.”

In a vociferous rally that featured songs and sermons, one of the most dramatic moments occurred when Michigan Sen. Carl Levin pulled out a newspaper and pointed to a recent story (www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200661104012)
about a vid

Posted: 11/6/2006 4:37:36 PM
By: Effenus Henderson
Comment:  The Ghosts of Reversity - The Challenge to Inclusion


Who are these spirits
that have conquered your soul? How did they entrap you? What were you told?

Deep inside my heart, a slave and freedman reside, their struggle still as vivid as the blood dripping down Jesus' side.

I've tried to understand the walk you are on, but my heart has stayed troubled and I feel the hurt of ancestors forgone.

Around the nation many of my people still in misery and pain. Still seeking opportunity as your camp builds walls against affirmative action with distain.

I see in their eyes as through the prismed windows they stare. You'd rather see them stay locked up. You have lost the will to care.

You are working hard to quiet the birds that sing. You're dampening their motivation -- get rid of the affirmative action thing.

Confidently you stride through states, hamlets and a new town.
Laughing at the shackles still holding our people down.

Who are they? These spirits that have taken control. Help me understand their power -- Is it notoriety or do you seek a personal bounty for selling a people's soul?

In California where you started your ride, you've help lock up opportunity and the aspiration and hope of many has strategically died.

The medicine you prescribe is like a cancer misdiagnosed. You are treating your actions like fodder as you continue to brag and boast.

Years ago while day dreaming back on a southern farm, I thought of the future and how my proud ancesters protected us from harm.

They instilled common decency, love and respect. They worked hard to break down walls of segregation and systemmic neglect.

The vestiges still linger yet these spirits have blocked your view. They have hoodwinked a community and built a wall between me and you.

What's really sad about the conviction you possess, is that you don't see the lost hope in that minority child's eye. You are too busy constructing a new Jim Crow test.

My fellow Americans, and yes, my friends in Michigan too, don't be fooled into thinking that his strategy is helping you too.

At night I dream of the courageous ones before. I see tears streaming from their eyes as they re-assert the question - will you close opportunity's door?

Yes my freinds, domestic transquility may well be as stake, as economic inequality widens, pushing opportunity below the surface of a pristine Michigan lake.

Who are these spirits and what do they want? They are Reversity's ghost looking for a new house to haunt.

Effenus Henderson

www.henderworks.com
Washington State

Posted: 11/5/2006 2:00:19 PM
By: Victor Merina
Comment:  This is IJJ senior fellow Victor Merina reporting from Michigan on the controversial Prop 2 which would ban affirmative action programs in university entrance:

A Numbers Game on Election Day

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick calls Tuesday’s vote on affirmative action “a critical moment in Michigan history” and says the political strategy is simple when it comes to defeating Proposal 2 on the state ballot.

“This is about numbers now,” he told supporters at a weekend rally opposing the anti-affirmative action ballot measure. “If we vote, we win. If we don’t, we lose. Prop 2 is so critical to the state of Michigan it’s up to all of us to round people up."

Rounding up committed voters to defeat Proposal 2 – which would amend the state constitution to ban affirmative action in many public programs – may be pivotal on Election Day for Kilpatrick and his allies but so will persuading uncommitted voters to join them.

In the latest Detroit Free Press-Local 4 Michigan Poll, released Sunday, voters seem intent on rejecting the measure that was inspired by former University of California regent Ward Connerly. The polls show 49% would reject the proposal, 39% support it and 12% remain undecided.

But pollsters acknowledge that voters responding to the survey may be confused about the proposal that would bar affirmative action programs based on race or gender in government hiring, contracting and university admissions. In addition to such confusion, pollsters point out that voters also could be disguising their true feelings when it comes to a volatile issue such as race.

That lingering uncertainty leads some affirmative action proponents to remain pessimistic about Election Day.

“I very much think that we are going to lose on Tuesday,” said Shanta Driver, the national spokesperson for BAMN or By Any Means Necessary, an activist group that went to court in a futile effort to keep Proposal 2 off the ballot.

“And I think that because in a state in which you have an overwhelming majority of the electorate being white – 83% in Michigan – and you place a question on a ballot which gives people the opportunity to vote between black equality or white privilege, over and over and over again in the privacy of that voting booth in that isolation filled with zeal and prejudice, too many white people vote the wrong way.”

Driver had joined Mayor Kilpatrick and other speakers to rally a predominantly black audience Saturday at Martin Luther King Jr. High School in Detroit’s east side. Despite her sobering assessment, Driver told the crowd that her group was ready to challenge the measure – in the courts and on the streets – if it passes.

“I doubt we will win on Tuesday, and I hope I’m wrong,” she added. “But having said that. The fight is far from over. No, the fight is just beginning now.”

Affirmative action proponents have marshaled broad-based support with a roster of prominent individuals and organizations opposed to the ballot measure – from the Republican and Democratic candidates for governor to business groups and environmental advocates. And they have relied on public rallies and public events to gather momentum and complement their ad campaigns. Meanwhile, proponents of Proposal 2 have depended heavily on the highly visible presence of Connerly and Jennifer Gratz, a lead plaintiff in a lawsuit that challenged the University of Michigan Law School’s affirmative action program in a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court.

In television ads, Connerly and Gratz appear side by side to warn voters that “working people (are) unfairly passed over” because of affirmative action programs and that it is time “to tell politicians equal treatment is your civil right.”

In a state with a battered economy, spiking unemployment and an automotive industry in financial disarray, the message carries an obvious appeal. But critics of Proposal 2 also worry that the lingering hand of racism will surface in the

Posted: 11/4/2006 2:42:36 PM
By: giuseppe capuano
Comment:  Thank yuo Marc.
In another words, is something to try to show that this country is not a racist one, but i really think ( i have read little bit in the mean time) that is like a "compensation", i don`t know the english word but maybe i can say in italian COMPENSANZIONE, meaning that we will still be racist, but for don`t make you upset i will give you something.
Black are still on the side of this country and this economy, even after 40 years, maybe is time for a change?

Posted: 11/4/2006 1:46:01 PM
By: Marc  Cooper
Comment:  Giuseppe:

In short affirmative action plans are administrative remedies to offset histotic discrimination in hiring, housing or education.

Posted: 11/4/2006 11:05:30 AM
By: giuseppe capuano
Comment:  Hi,
i am an italian and i got this link from the Marc Cooper web site.
Before tell anything, what is Affirmitive action???

Posted: 11/4/2006 10:59:45 AM
By: John Hodges
Comment:  Sorry, I dont know how to download an article. I cannot read what Mr. Cose had to say about it. I am familiar with the pro and con sides on the issue of affirmative action. I have studied it probably too extensively. I don't have much to add on it. Beware: nothing earth-shaking is going to appear on this email.
It appears we have a face off with the dems for it and the repubs against it. What else is new?
Isn't the term affirmative action a misnomer? It is a quota system, pure and simple.
I think that the advocates for it should direct their energies into getting a law passed that will give special protection and privileges to black Americans for the injustices of slavery and it's aftermath. Why not do that instead of lowering standards, and everything else that is being done to "level the playing field." Also, it will apply only to blacks: no white women or others need apply.

John

Posted: 11/2/2006 5:49:18 PM
By: Marc  Cooper
Comment:  Welcome to our public discussion and debate over affirmative action. Our only ground rule: keep it civil.